Sep 10, 10:56: Michael>
Hello?? Who's here?
Sep 10, 10:56: Jane has entered the room
Sep 10, 10:56: Welcome,
Sus, in Denmark
Sep 10, 10:57: Michael> Morning Jane
Sep 10, 10:58: Jane> Hello Michael, good to see you're here and I'm
very pleased to introduce you to the group for our first guest speaker
Sep 10, 10:58: Michael> And hello Olivia. Are you one of the CDE team?
Sep 10, 10:58: Chris has entered the room
Sep 10, 10:58: Welcome,
Sus, in Denmark
Sep 10, 10:58: Michael> My pleasure Jane.
Sep 10, 10:59: Michael> Chris - you made it - is it 3.00 am for you?
Sep 10, 10:59: Olivia> Hello Michael, yes I'm a CDE team member
Sep 10, 10:59: Chris> Hi, everyone. It is 6 p.m. here in Arizona.
Sep 10, 11:00: Jane> Welcome to Sydney
Sep 10, 11:00: Michael> Nice to meet you Olivia. Chris is a Webhead
colleague of mine.
Sep 10, 11:00: Haridian has entered the room
Sep 10, 11:00: Welcome,
Sus, in Denmark
Sep 10, 11:00: Michael> How many are you expecting Jane?
Sep 10, 11:01: Chris> Are you waiting to see if a few more people are
Sep 10, 11:01: Jane> Not sure, Michael, a few but not many more, sorry
to be so vague...
Sep 10, 11:01: Michael> That's what I was thinking Chris.....
Sep 10, 11:01: Haridian> Hi there, just reading to see what has happened
Sep 10, 11:02: Michael> ...but with this tool we could actually start
because latecomers can see what we've been discussing.
Sep 10, 11:02: Michael> It's a nice feature of this chat tool, but....
Sep 10, 11:03: Michael> ...it alos means people can see what was said
some days ago so you need to be careful what you say!
Sep 10, 11:03: Dafne has entered the room
Sep 10, 11:03: Welcome,
Sus, in Denmark
Sep 10, 11:04: Jane> Oh Michael, we're always careful, very careful,
Sep 10, 11:04: Michael> Welcome Daf - now I know it is 3.00 am for
Sep 10, 11:04: Dafne > Hello, I am Dafne in Spain
Sep 10, 11:04: Dafne > right
Sep 10, 11:05: Michael> I thibnk we should make a start....
Sep 10, 11:05: Charmaine has entered the room
Sep 10, 11:05: Welcome,
Daf in Spain
Sep 10, 11:05: Haridian> Hola Dafne, yo soy española
Sep 10, 11:05: Charmaine> Greetings from me!
Sep 10, 11:05: Dafne > I am from Venezuela, but studying in Spain
Sep 10, 11:05: Jane> Yes please Michael, and welcome to our guests
from around the world!
Sep 10, 11:05: Michael> Can each person introduce themselves to the
group - a couple of lines will do. And OLivia and Handain can you say
what experience you've had with online chat?
Sep 10, 11:06: Dafne > I need to get used to read on top
Sep 10, 11:06: Dafne > the chat is slow
Sep 10, 11:07: Michael> I'm based in Adelaide, and I am a Flexible
Learning Leader for 2003. My backgorund is in ESL teaching, and I am a
member of the Webheads community (some of whom are here with us today)
Sep 10, 11:07: Moira has entered the room
Sep 10, 11:07: Welcome,
Daf in Spain
Sep 10, 11:07: Chris> I'm Chris Jones from Yuma, Arizona USA. I've
mostly used online chats with other Webheads although I've joined some
of Michael's sessions before.
Sep 10, 11:08: Jane> Greetings, I'm coordinating the CDE Project, which
is a professional development for adult eduators relating to online learning
and culturally and linguistically diverse learners, phew...
Sep 10, 11:08: Michael> Charmaine and Moira - can you also tell me
if you have used online chat much before?
Sep 10, 11:08: Charmaine> Hi, I'm one of the MPU babes and I have been
in and out of the chat room quite a lot with the CDE team. I hate online
chat outside work. Call me baring if you like!
Sep 10, 11:08: Haridian> I am from Coffs Harbour in NSW - australia
but originally from Spain. I only chat with family, have not done much
chatting in chat rooms
Sep 10, 11:08: Moira> Hi - Moira here from the MPU in Oxford St
Sep 10, 11:08: Dafne > I am Dafne Gonzalez, and ESP teacher of English
for Architecture, now in Spain finishing my doctoral dissertation on e-design
Sep 10, 11:08: Charmaine> Boring, sorrry!
Sep 10, 11:08: Michael> Thanks Chris - waiting on intros from others...
Sep 10, 11:09: Olivia> I'm in the Multicultural Programs Unit in Sydney
with Jane. I've mainly used Messenger for personnal chats although also
used a newsgroup for a tutorial at uni.
Sep 10, 11:09: Michael> OK Haridian. Thanks. And MPU = what Moira?
Sep 10, 11:09: Dafne > I believe in chat as a colaborative tool for
teaching and learning
Sep 10, 11:09: Michael> Oh - I see Olivia just answered that!
Sep 10, 11:10: Charmaine>
Sep 10, 11:10: Michael> Ok - thanks for the intros. Jane - can I throw
a q your way?
Sep 10, 11:10: Jane> Please do
Sep 10, 11:11:
Sep 10, 11:11: Michael> Jane - for the non -NSw gyuests here - c an
you pleae just frame the context here for us? What is the main goal of
the CDE or MPU and this LearnScope propject?
Sep 10, 11:11: Dafne > that would be great
Sep 10, 11:11: Michael> AND...when it comes to elearning, what is the
goal of your group?
Sep 10, 11:11: Jane> Our professional development has 2 key focus areas:
Sep 10, 11:12: Jane> One is building on an existing community of practice
and creating a virtual space for it, ie where we are now and
Sep 10, 11:13: Jane> the other is development in online facilitation
skills with a particular focus on learners from culturally and linguistic
Sep 10, 11:13: Jane> our team members work in the multicultural adult
vocational education field.
Sep 10, 11:13: Michael> So you want to know how to make THIS space
a living breathing thing?
Sep 10, 11:14: Jane> mmmm yes please!
Sep 10, 11:15: Michael> Ok - to treat that question first- I thuink
that's a fairly eay one in principal
Sep 10, 11:16: Michael> Daf and Chris will back me up here I'm sure
- just lookmat the webheads model.
Sep 10, 11:16: Michael> Is everone familiar with the webheads?
Sep 10, 11:17: Charmaine> NO!
Sep 10, 11:17: Chris> Are the other people here familiar with the Webheads,
or do we need to explain a little about it?
Sep 10, 11:17: Michael> Webheads home = http://www.homestead.com/prosites-vstevens/files/efi/webheads.htm
Sep 10, 11:17: Olivia> please explain
Sep 10, 11:18: Michael> The webheads is a community of ESL/EFL teachers
and learners from all over the world.
Sep 10, 11:18: Chris> I joined the Webheads in Jan. 2002, and I've
learned a lot from them since then.
Sep 10, 11:18: Charmaine> I still don't understand it. what is it for?
Sep 10, 11:18: Michael> It has been in existence since 1997 approx
Sep 10, 11:18: Michael> Daf and Chris - can you chip in here?
Sep 10, 11:18: Jane> I participated in a Webheads discussion with Michael
at NET*Working 2002 and I think Michael put the link in our forum?
Sep 10, 11:18: Michael> What is webheads for?
Sep 10, 11:19:
Sep 10, 11:19: Chris> The Webheads have 2 weekly online chat sessions,
one on Saturday and one on Sunday.
Sep 10, 11:19:
Sep 10, 11:19:
Sep 10, 11:19: Chris> The purpose is to try out new free software that
we could potentially use with our students.
Sep 10, 11:19: Charmaine> I shall try it. Thanks.
Sep 10, 11:19: Michael> It's a Community of Practice Charmaine. In
short, it teaches me a hundred things and provides me with the company
of a stimulating group of friends and professinals
Sep 10, 11:20: Michael> Anything to add Chris and Daf?
Sep 10, 11:20: Charmaine> Many thanks, Michael!
Sep 10, 11:20: Daf> we learn collaboratively
Sep 10, 11:21: Daf> providing social scaffolding when needed
Sep 10, 11:21: Michael> I would add that we debate issues to do with
teaching and learning as well - partic with referebce to learners from
Sep 10, 11:21: Chris> There is a constant forum going on via Yahoo
Groups, and I get a daily digest of all the messages. I contribute questions
and suggestions as I feel they are appropriate.
Sep 10, 11:21: Daf> we work with a distributed leadership
Sep 10, 11:22: Daf> we document our findings on web pages
Sep 10, 11:22: Charmaine> could you please further define what social
scafolding is about, Daf?
Sep 10, 11:22: Michael> But of course to make such a community thrive
you have to people with the time and the drive (and the money) to make
Sep 10, 11:22: Daf> the community web page and the members
Sep 10, 11:22: Chris> Sometimes I'll meet with one or two members to
try out a type of chat I'm unfamiliar with.
Sep 10, 11:22: Olivia> that does sound like a good model. how did you
build it up?
Sep 10, 11:22: Daf> scaffolding is that the experts help the novice
Sep 10, 11:23: Daf> we share our work
Sep 10, 11:23: Charmaine> examples, Chris? I don't know there are different
types of chat.
Sep 10, 11:23: Daf> we participate in group projects
Sep 10, 11:23: Michael> SO....Jane (as I understand it) would like
this site to become something of a Community of Practice for the CDE unit.
What would make you come here more often Olivia?
Sep 10, 11:23: Daf> with students and teachers worldwide
Sep 10, 11:24: Michael> Or Charmaine? Haridian?
Sep 10, 11:24: Charmaine> Daf,
Sep 10, 11:24: Michael> Or Moira?
Sep 10, 11:24: Haridian> It sounds very interesting
Sep 10, 11:24: Daf> Charmaine
Sep 10, 11:25: Chris> Charlmaine, There is Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger,
PalTalk, and others.
Sep 10, 11:25: Haridian> what kind of group projects Daf. Do students
Sep 10, 11:25: Daf> wimba, too
Sep 10, 11:25: Charmaine> Michael, I would come her more often if I
can find other regular comers and talk about things we are interested
in and concerned about.
Sep 10, 11:25: Daf> different kinds, Haridian
Sep 10, 11:25: Daf> for example I just finished a video.chat unit
Sep 10, 11:25: Daf> with students in Venezuela and e
Sep 10, 11:26: Daf> teachers in Spain, France, Denmark and USA
Sep 10, 11:26: Haridian> what is a video chat unit and can we look
Sep 10, 11:26: Michael> OK thanks Charmaine. Maybe a regular chat or
forum discussion would entice you?
Sep 10, 11:26: Chris> Another chat is Tapped In. Some have voice chat
as well as text chat.
Sep 10, 11:27: Daf> let me get the url
Sep 10, 11:27: Michael> And - what would work better> Chat or Forum
- which is more lkely to engage your attention?
Sep 10, 11:28: Daf> this is the video-chat unit :http://dafnegon.tripod.com/videochat/videochat-unit.htm
Sep 10, 11:28: Charmaine> Yeah, Michael, if it works. sometimes scheduled
sessions may be participated in because people may have to attend various
others things urgently.
Sep 10, 11:28: Michael> Olivia - I realise you asked a q earlier that
has not been answered yet - but ...what would make you come to this site
Sep 10, 11:28: Chris> Michael, aren't you considering do both a chat
and a forum? I've added some comments to the forum.
Sep 10, 11:29: Daf> I am more of a synchronous web user
Sep 10, 11:29: Charmaine> Michael and others: I think forum is better
if we want to discuss a particular issue. Chat is good to have a bit fun.
Sep 10, 11:29: Daf> and my students prefer that, too
Sep 10, 11:29: Michael> Yes Chris - but I was thinkin g more of the
ongoing use of this site.
Sep 10, 11:30: Daf> chat can be very serious and engaging for collaborative
Sep 10, 11:30: Michael> I lean more to synchronous too Daf. Chat can
be used a serious tool!
Sep 10, 11:30: Olivia> i guess I would come here more often if i found
I could discuss freely with other stakeholders issues that were of concern
Sep 10, 11:30: Jane> Thank you, Dafne, for the url
Sep 10, 11:30: Daf>
Sep 10, 11:30: Michael> Although the reality is it appeals to diff
types of learners.
Sep 10, 11:30: Olivia> ..and if they came also to participate... maybe
its a matter of momentum..
Sep 10, 11:31: Haridian> I find chat a bit confusing with so many threads
going, but being synchronous there is a compulsion to be here. With forum
you tend to put it off
Sep 10, 11:31: Michael> OK - thanks OLivia.
Sep 10, 11:31: Daf> right, Haridian
Sep 10, 11:31: Charmaine> also it can be a habit once a routine is
Sep 10, 11:32: Michael> Yes Haridian - it's a matter of priority. What's
more important - the face to face meeting or contributin g to the chat
or forum you said you'd attend?
Sep 10, 11:32: Chris> I don't tend to check a forum regularly unless
I get a daily or weekly reminder that there are new messages to read.
Sep 10, 11:32: Charmaine> Can I ask a stupid question? What is synchronous?
Please enlight me.
Sep 10, 11:32: Michael> If online community is to be part of your life
you have to give it some priority.
Sep 10, 11:32: Daf> synch is in real time, like now
Sep 10, 11:33: Michael> Synchronous = real time (eg chat, telephone)
Sep 10, 11:33: Daf> it is 3 am for me in Spain
Sep 10, 11:33: Haridian> It depends Michael, which one is more interesting
and important at the time
Sep 10, 11:33: Michael> Asynchronous communication = email, forum (where
there is a delay between initial post and the reply)
Sep 10, 11:33: Jane> For me there's something incredibly attractive
about communicating live with people round the world, like I wonder what
Arizona looks like out of Chris' window... and
Sep 10, 11:33: Charmaine> Thanks, Michael. I prefer to hear the solid
sound, human or non-human!
Sep 10, 11:34: Jane> that makes me think of different frames and perspectives
(by the way, I'm looking at Sydney Harbour out of my window
Sep 10, 11:34: Daf> you can have voice chat, too, Charmaine
Sep 10, 11:34: Michael> That's fine Haridian - but I thi nk many people
automatically relegate the online activity to the bottom of the list of
Sep 10, 11:34: Daf> we even have music sessions
Sep 10, 11:35: Charmaine> I suppose there is a very good point in what
you said, Jane. virtual communication does generate some imagination.
Sep 10, 11:35: Daf> Michael is an expert in voice chat and singing
Sep 10, 11:35: Chris> Jane, It's getting dark, but it's really hot
Sep 10, 11:35: Michael> That is a good point Jane
Sep 10, 11:36: Haridian> That's true Michael, because other things
seem more immediate and pressing, such as getting that final report done.
It's a matter of establishing priorities and also making a habit of it
Sep 10, 11:36: Charmaine> Chris, we have a glorious spring day here.
Sep 10, 11:37: Haridian> I've just sent a couple of comments but they
were not posted. This is to check
Sep 10, 11:37: Michael> So that's the challenge Jane - getting this
site (community) on people's lists of priorities.
Sep 10, 11:38: Chris> Jane, Yuma is in the desert, so daytime temperatures
this time of year are about 100-110 degrees Fahrenheit.
Sep 10, 11:38: Daf> you already have a shared goal
Sep 10, 11:38: Michael> We have 20 min left - shall we continue talking
about this site , or turn our focus to learners from other cultures/language
Sep 10, 11:38: Haridian> Since we are creatures of habit (at least
I am) if there was a regular time I would probably participate regularly
Sep 10, 11:38: Daf> I like the fact that you can post your picture
that is the first step in getting to know each other
Sep 10, 11:39: Daf> so you can identify ideas with faces
Sep 10, 11:39: Chris> This is a good time for me, so Iwould be able
to join you frequently.
Sep 10, 11:39: Jane> I would love to focuus on learners from other
cultures/language backgrounds, particularly as we have guests with such
Sep 10, 11:40: Michael> OK.
Sep 10, 11:40: Chris> How about some of the others? Charmaine? Moira?
Sep 10, 11:41: Michael> My first question - is there a problem here
at all? Do learners from otjher backgrounds experience difficulty online?
is English the problem? Or is the diff cultural backgrounds?
Sep 10, 11:41: Michael> Any thoughts from anyone ....
Sep 10, 11:42: Charmaine> Yes. But could we define what learners we
are talking about? They are all so different. Were they born here? Young
or old? etc?
Sep 10, 11:42: Daf> INone of that has ever been a problem with us at
Sep 10, 11:42: Michael> Jane - can you address that?
Sep 10, 11:43: Daf> differences has enriched our learning process
Sep 10, 11:43: Charmaine> English can be a problem if we are referring
to learners who are educated overseas and haven't been here that long.
Sep 10, 11:43: Chris> Some of my adult students have the most difficulty
learning to use the Internet.
Sep 10, 11:43: Michael> Whikle we're waiting for Jane's respone...why
do you think that is the case Daf?
Sep 10, 11:43: Chris> They don't have computers at home, so it's a
new experience for them.
Sep 10, 11:43: Chris> By the way, I meet f2f with them.
Sep 10, 11:44: Charmaine> I think I'd better shut up for a little while.
I have posted a very long comment on NESB learners participating in online.
Sep 10, 11:44: Daf> we really concentrate on our objectives, and do
not look at people because of their backgrounds, maybe
Sep 10, 11:44: Jane> The reading I've done recently on the subject
reminds me that every aspect and all levels of online interaction are
culturally based and
Sep 10, 11:44: Daf> we have established real bonds with the people
in our CoP
Sep 10, 11:44: Michael> Chris/Charmaine - I would advocate that introducijg
thes types of learners to elearning is best domne in the classroom.
Sep 10, 11:45: Chris> I think we really appreciate our mutual expertise.
Sep 10, 11:45: Charmaine> Absolutely agree, Michael!
Sep 10, 11:45: Daf> I think the our synchronous encounters have been
an asset to create bonds among the members
Sep 10, 11:45: Jane> it seems to me (don't all shout at once please)
that online interaction has been mainly an English white male system,
so that could mean pretty much everyone else is external to that? What
do you think?
Sep 10, 11:46: Chris> We help each other. No one knows everything.
Sep 10, 11:46: Michael> Jane - it has been the case for some time now
that females are the majority of email users
Sep 10, 11:46: Daf> it has not been my experience, Jane
Sep 10, 11:47: Haridian> OOOOOO I am not screaming, I am agreeing with
Sep 10, 11:47: Jane> That's good to hear
Sep 10, 11:47: Chris> Jane, there seem to be more women than men here
though that is often true in education related fields.
Sep 10, 11:47: Michael> Daf - as a matter of interest - how often do
you communicate online in Spanish? Or Haridian?
Sep 10, 11:47: Daf> someone once complained because our list was being
dominated by "the girls"
Sep 10, 11:48: Daf> almost on a daily basis, Michael
Sep 10, 11:48: Jane> And it would seem to me that even the dominance
of English in cyberspace creates differences in access to knowledge, for
Sep 10, 11:48: Daf> sometimes in one window in Spanish and in another
in English at the same time
Sep 10, 11:48: Haridian> Every weekend with my family. We do use a
lot of emoticons
Sep 10, 11:49: Michael> So Jane - can we conclude that there a lot
of non-male non-English net activity?
Sep 10, 11:50: Michael> But you point on the dominace of English s
a valid one Jane. is ther anything that can be done about this? Should
Sep 10, 11:50: Jane> Yes, good to know that.
Sep 10, 11:50: Charmaine> Can't help myself! Michael, if you include
non English speaking online activities. YES. But we are talking aout virtual
activities in English speaking contexts, are we?
Sep 10, 11:50: Haridian> Daf we are probably dominated by females in
our profession as teacher, would that explain it? (6)
Sep 10, 11:50: Chris> Michael, I know my students, most of whom are
of Mexican origin, enjoy chatting in Spanish.
Sep 10, 11:51: Daf> we have many men in Webheads, but girls are more
Sep 10, 11:52: Michael> Charnaine - I guess in your contect we are
talking about NESB people in virtual Engliosh environments.
Sep 10, 11:52: Michael> I mean context
Sep 10, 11:52: Chris> I think the language of a chat almost takes care
of itself. The chatters will use whatever language the majority knows
well enough to use.
Sep 10, 11:52: Charmaine> Yes. Michael.
Sep 10, 11:52: Michael> And in many of those environments the instructors
are English native speakers
Sep 10, 11:53: Charmaine> Right, Michael.
Sep 10, 11:53: Michael> So is there a set of rules an English speaking
instructor needs to follow to be effective in that situation?
Sep 10, 11:53: Daf> I have been analyzing 30 chat sessions with venezuelan
students with no teacher presence, and there is not any spanish work in
Sep 10, 11:54: Haridian> (C)
Sep 10, 11:54: Daf> word, I mean
Sep 10, 11:54: Michael> Maybe we could create one? What would be on
Sep 10, 11:54: Michael> Daf - you mean they dopn't speak Spanish in
Sep 10, 11:55: Daf> not at all, Michael
Sep 10, 11:55: Daf> only English
Sep 10, 11:55: Charmaine> I think some sort of guidelines or suggestions
may help, Michael. It is about awareness. We all do things following our
Sep 10, 11:55: Michael> Amazing!
Sep 10, 11:56: Daf> they were engaged in their task
Sep 10, 11:56: Michael> OK - in the last few minutes here let;s brainstorm
Sep 10, 11:56: Haridian> My nephews use English words interpersed amonst
the Spanish. Their English is co atrocius that at times I think I might
be getting a virus
Sep 10, 11:56: Daf> lol
Sep 10, 11:56: Michael> How can Englosh speaking isntructors improve
effectiveness with NESB learners online, and encourage participation?
Sep 10, 11:57: Michael> Everybody must throw in at least one idea!
Sep 10, 11:57: Michael> GO!
Sep 10, 11:57: Jane> And a lot of things which happen in the class
room can apply to the online environment, eg check for understanding
Sep 10, 11:57: Michael> don't use slang
Sep 10, 11:57: Daf> task-based cooperative-collaborative instruction
in group chat
Sep 10, 11:57: Chris> I'm going to have to go. An out-of-town is waiting
to go to dinner with me.
Sep 10, 11:57: Daf> oh oh, Chris
Sep 10, 11:57: Chris> I'll check back to find out when the next meeting
Sep 10, 11:58: Charmaine> be open, creating a relaxing environment.
Sep 10, 11:58: Michael> One idea before you go Chris..
Sep 10, 11:58: Chris> I enjoyed talking with Michael and Daf again
and meeting the rest of you.
Sep 10, 11:58: Charmaine> bye, Chris. Nice to meet you!
Sep 10, 11:58: Jane> Thanks for coming, Chris, bye and enjoy dinner!
Sep 10, 11:58: Daf> if in chat, no correction of grammar unless asked
by the student
Sep 10, 11:59: Chris> My idea - find a topic that they students have
strong feelings about.
Sep 10, 11:59: Chris> Till next time!
Sep 10, 11:59: Charmaine> Give everybody a go.
Sep 10, 11:59: Daf> chat are good for debates in groups
Sep 10, 11:59: Michael> OK Chris - tha bks for coming today. See you
Sep 10, 11:59: Chris has left the room
Sep 10, 12:00: Daf> bye, Chris
Sep 10, 12:00: Michael> Olivia? Haridian? Moira?
Sep 10, 12:01: Haridian has left the room
Sep 10, 12:01: Olivia> speaking clearly...
Sep 10, 12:02: Michael> OK- thanks Olivia. Or maybe you mean 'WRITING
Sep 10, 12:02: Moira> Perhaps there are listeners in the chat room....
Sep 10, 12:02: Michael> Or both I guess
Sep 10, 12:02: Jane> Build a glossary of any technical terms, encouraging
Sep 10, 12:02: Daf> clear step-by-step instructions for tasks
Sep 10, 12:02: Olivia> writing/speaking
Sep 10, 12:02: Charmaine> Many thanks, Michael! See you next time.
Sep 10, 12:03: Michael> maybe this is a task we could explore in the
forum over the next 24 hrs - getting a kind of guide ior checklist
Sep 10, 12:03: Moira> Bye everyone
Sep 10, 12:03: Charmaine has left the room
Sep 10, 12:03: Michael> Thank you Charmaine.
Sep 10, 12:03: Daf> good idea, Michael
Sep 10, 12:03: Moira has left the room
Sep 10, 12:03: Michael> Thank you ALL in fact. I hop eit was useful
and stimulated some ideas for you.
Sep 10, 12:04: Daf> thanks for the invitation, Michael
Sep 10, 12:04: Olivia> hmmm.... I"m interested that you guys overseas
haven't experienced issues with cultural diversity online..... perhaps
to be explored next time.
Sep 10, 12:04: Jane> Excellent idea, Michael, would you like me to
summarise the ideas and post into the Forum?
Sep 10, 12:04: Olivia> thank you all
Sep 10, 12:04: Michael> Jane - I do have to go. But I imagine those
who wish to keep chatting can do so?
Sep 10, 12:04: Michael> Thank YOU Daf.
Sep 10, 12:05: Daf> well, it is 4 am here
Sep 10, 12:05: Daf> time to hit the sack
Sep 10, 12:05: Michael> Jane - re the summary - if you could do that
that would be excellent
Sep 10, 12:05: Jane> OK, Michael, thanks again, see you in the Forum,
and thanks to all the webheads who joined us, bi for now.
Sep 10, 12:06: Daf> thanks, Jane
Sep 10, 12:06: Michael> Bye Daf - sleep well
Sep 10, 12:06: Jane> Will do summary happily!
Sep 10, 12:06: Daf> thanks
Sep 10, 12:06: Daf> bye
Sep 10, 12:06: Michael> My pleasure Jane. I'l be in touch via email.
Sep 10, 12:07: Olivia has left the room
Sep 10, 12:07: Michael> I'm now going to try and print this chat and
see how many pages it is.